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  "sourcesContent": ["import{jsx as e,jsxs as t}from\"react/jsx-runtime\";import{Link as a}from\"framer\";import{motion as o}from\"framer-motion\";import*as n from\"react\";export const richText=/*#__PURE__*/t(n.Fragment,{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{style:{\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"left\"},children:\"\u201CWe haven\u2019t invented a new way to work out since the ancient Greeks. With electro muscular stimulation, we're breaking that.\u201D Invention is a big part of everything Bjoern Woltermann did at Katalyst to bring electro muscular stimulation, or EMS, to the US market \u2013 and to US homes. EMS workouts have been around for decades, but typically only in a physical therapy context. With Katalyst, you wear a suit that triggers your muscles while you work out, promising the equivalent of a 2-hour workout in only 20 minutes, and with less injury risk than a traditional workout. But to make this suit work at home, Bjoern and his team needed to invent everything from special sensors to custom textiles.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"On this episode, we'll hear how a long-time back problem led Bjoern to discover EMS training in Germany, and realize the untouched opportunity for bringing it to the US. And we\u2019ll go deep to understand how Bjoern and his team created a fascinating mix of hardware, software, sensors, textiles, and content and then stitched it all together.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{style:{\"--framer-line-height\":\"1em\",\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"center\"},children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(34, 57, 206)\"},children:\"Listen to Bjoern Woltermann, on Crafted, Artium's podcast about great products and the people who make them.\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Listen and subscribe to Crafted: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dont-throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall-how-to-build-an-mvp/id1649355311?i=1000633197154\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Apple Podcasts\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://open.spotify.com/episode/45MiAxxEOTkAFdBCQQbrZc\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Spotify\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://link.chtbl.com/NvazwHjY\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"All Podcast Apps\"})})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Full transcript below\"})}),\" \u2014 but we recommend you listen for the best experience.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann: \"}),\"Generally technology had massive impacts on humanity if it made it easier, a bicycle, a car, a plane, a phone. So it made things easier, made it better. We haven't invented a new way to work out since the ancient Greeks. The ancient Greeks were lifting rocks. They were wrestling, they were running. The Olympic Games are still the same. So with electro muscular stimulation, we're breaking that. It's literally the plane where there were steamships before.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That's Bjoern Woltermann, Founder and CEO of Katalyst, an exercise system that uses electro muscular stimulation, or EMS, to revolutionize your workout. With Katalyst, exercisers put on a suit that stimulates their muscles as they exercise and promises users the equivalent of a 2-hour workout in only 20 minutes and all in a way that reduces injury risk because you don't need to lift any weights. Katalyst is a fascinating mix of hardware, software, sensors, content, body mechanics, and even custom-made textiles that they had to invent. On this episode, we'll go deep to understand how Bjoern and team stitch it all together.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"We literally said we had an invention a day. What are we inventing today? That was literally what it was about.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"In Bjoern's native Germany, EMS training suits are widely available at gyms. Meanwhile, here in the US, Bjorn discovered that hardly anyone had heard of the technology.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"And this was like this eureka moment from me where I'm like, sorry, I'm sitting in effing Beverly Hills and you don't have this? Like how on earth, right? This is like the stuff is invented here.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Bjoern saw a massive opportunity to bring the benefits of EMS to the US and even more so to bring EMS to the home. No going to the gym required. But could he and the team get the tech right?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Welcome to Crafted a show about great products and the people who make them. I'm your host, Dan Blumberg. I'm a product and engagement leader at Artium, where my colleagues and I help companies build incredible products, recruit high performing teams, and help you achieve the culture of craft you need to build great software long after we're gone.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"If you've never heard of EMS workouts or the Katalyst suit, imagine a fitted black suit with straps around your arms and legs and a tight vest. There's a kind of superhero mission impossible vibe to it.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Speaker 3: \"}),\"That was incredible. It was only 20 minutes?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Speaker 4:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I am sweating profusely.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Speaker 5:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"It's the same movement, same everything. It's just your muscles are exerting more force.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Speaker 3:\"}),\" I'm out of breath, so it is real.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Speaker 4:\"}),\" It's totally different than anything I've ever experienced.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The workout tends to blow people's minds and Katalyst can hardly make suits fast enough. They've been sold out for two years and there's a wait list in the thousands. But long before Bjorn brought this home version to the US it was widely used in gym settings throughout Germany. In 2010, Bjorn was working for Deutsche Telecom in digital product incubation and traveling extensively despite a longstanding lower back problem.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I was spending a lot of time in Israel, the west coast, east coast, did this for a few years, ended up 150 days a year on a plane, and my lower back blew up again. Like no shit, you know, surprise, surprise. So I was 20 days a month on painkillers, couldn't get out of bed in the morning. I was 35 at the time, so shouldn't be in that shape. So my physician sent me to a personal training studio using something called full body electro muscle stimulation training, which at the time I hadn't heard about before. So he sent me to this personal training studio and there were two individuals with a personal trainer having black suits on, wires everywhere over them and standing in front of two devices, having nothing in their hands, moving their arms and sweating like crazy. And I was like, is this a heated room? Make no sense to me what I saw.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"So basically it's kind of like stim. You've used it on knees or hips or elbows and so forth. And stim technology is basically so gentle and safe to the body that you could use it after you're injured. So it's actually very gentle, but also efficient methodology to train your muscles. And the idea behind this type of personal training was instead of waiting until you're injured, you use it on healthy muscles and you use it all over the body combined with basic calisthenic movements. And within a 20-minute session, you are basically able to work out your whole body at a level that even in the gym is hard to do. Because you actively engage the muscle, there's no muscle left behind, especially in hard to train areas, which is like the lower back, your abs, your core, glutes, all these things that when you're sitting are basically underdeveloped. So I did this workout once, tried it, two days later I was like sore, like hell, what did I do? I did it every Monday at 6:00 PM. I did it for six weeks and then I woke up one Sunday morning and I told my wife, I haven't taken a pill in a week and I'm pain free. And that was miraculous to me.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The miracle of the suit is not only how it reaches difficult to train areas.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"During these 20 minutes, every 4 seconds there's a stimulation happening. And while the stimulation is happening, you go through basic calisthenic movements. You do butterflies, you do squats, you do lunges, biceps curls and so on and so forth. And what's happening is, let's use the biceps curl as an example. When you do a biceps curl, you normally create a force against a dumbbell. And what's happening in EMS training is your triceps is also being triggered at the same time. So your biceps engages against your triceps. So both muscles are trained at the same time. You have a neutral load on your joint because there's no external load from the barbell and they basically work against each other. So your body is working against itself or with itself and engaging a lot of muscle groups at the same time. There's no impact, there's no joint loading, there's no injury risk.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The revelation of this suit was topped by another revelation for Bjorn later that year on a trip to California.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"We were sitting with some friends and couples at a barbecue in Beverly Hills. My wife was also a customer at the time of this training studio, started talking about fitness and hey, I do this with a suit and so forth. And everybody looked at her and like what are you talking about? And this was like this eureka moment from me where I'm like, sorry, I'm sitting in effing Beverly Hills and you don't have this? Like how on earth? This stuff is invented here. So for context, at the time Germany had 500 personal training studios like this. There were chains with like hundreds of studios already existent. So I identified it, like first checked out if the technology checks out, like is the science solid or is it a fad? Most things are just fads in fitness. They come and go, but does it really check out? And basically because it's been around in physical therapy for 40, 50 years at the time, we used it since the '60s, it is there. I mean, did you watch Rocky 4? Like Ivan Drago, where he's fighting the Russian. So I mean in this movie they literally have the American, Stallone is training with logs and the Russians are using all this high-tech stuff.\"}),\"Ivan Drago: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I cannot be defeated.\"}),\"Ivan Drago: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Soon, whole world will know my name. Drago. Drago.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" And literally in the '60s and '70s there's something called Russian Stim. They just literally took a sign curve, put it into the body and see what happens. So it was a very crude way to do it, but it basically worked. And what you found was like Olympian sprinters from Russia were competitive and no one knew where they were coming from. So it actually worked and has been working for a long period of time, and now it had been much more refined. And then in 2015 I decided to make this my mission. I wrote it down and said, I'm going to put a dent into the CDC statistics of health and wellness of the American people and embarked on this journey.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Before he became a product and technology leader, Bjorn trained as a behavioral economist. So he has deep interest in motivation and how innovation can change lives.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" If we think about what we had 20 years of innovation and health tech or fitness tech and what they did is was basically two categories. They either were trackers or we bolted a screen on a device that already existed. And I'm not saying this in any negative way. It's like what we did is we motivated people to do something that already existed. There have been bikes, home bikes collecting dust for 50 years. Now we created a great experience around it and put a DJ on it and a hot model in front of it and so on and so forth. And now people were motivated. So it's the motivation axis to do the thing that they didn't like in the first place. Same is true for rowers. Same is true for weights, same is true for aerobics. Same is true for running. No one is helping me with the ability to do it. So we are always just moving on the motivation axis. All this tech is moving on the motivation axis, and this is coming down to really understand how do I make something easier? Generally technology had massive impacts on humanity if it made it easier, a bicycle, a car, a plane, a phone.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Dishwasher.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Dishwasher, yes. So it made things easier, made it better. We haven't invented a new way to work out since the ancient Greeks. The ancient Greeks were lifting rocks. They were wrestling, they were running long, short distances whatsoever. The Olympic Games are still the same. Yes, we added pickle ball, I get it, yes, but we're still doing the same things. So with electro muscle stimulation is we are, we're breaking that. It's literally the plane where there were steam ships before and that fundamentally made it easier. So in a short amount of time without an injury risk, I need much less ability to work out. We have people that are hip replacement candidates and are working out. They cannot lift anything. They cannot walk up the stairs, but they can do Katalyst. So the thing that really broke it for me, made it so clear was I'm moving on the ability axis. I'm not only moving on the motivation axis. This is fundamentally different.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" And so you identified this really interesting technology, this crazy unmet opportunity in Beverly Hills and elsewhere. So what did you do next?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I took a device to LA and I asked 20 of my friends in LA like, hey, I want to show you something. So I rented a hotel suite and every hour and a half I had someone come by, got them through the experience and gave them a questionnaire afterwards. What did you like, what did you not like? Do you want one? And so on and so forth. Figure out if this is something that Americans would even be interested in. And guess what? Something that works that's short and easy to do and is absolutely effective, guess what? Yes, Americans want that. So that really worked. But the feedback was I want my own suit. I want to be able to do this at home. And this was in 2013 for context, it was a year before Peloton launched. But the whole notion was already I want my own stuff. So I knew what they wanted, I knew what was possible. I learned about the regulatory environment and said, yeah, we have something here. It's valid, it's solid. It's like the economics pan out. The gap for me was hardware. I've never done electronic hardware. So there was an opportunity to hire a few folks out of Microsoft. I started building a first generation in late '16, early '17.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"In the US, the suit was considered a medical device and needed FDA approval. In 2017, Katalyst got that approval, but initially the FDA categorized the suit as a prescription device, meaning it had to be used under the supervision of a trainer. So Katalyst introduced the suit to the US by opening a few studios.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"So same model as in Europe at the time. The long-term goal was always to get it into the hands of people, but short term, that was the step that was possible. So we did a first step. What we did is we had a fully quantified device at the time. So it was generating a ton of data. It was all about understanding what's literally happening to the body, what's the right setting, what's the right intensity? And then in late '18, I went on holidays, had some time to think because I was going full throttle for two years nonstop. And I was like, I think I know enough to build a home device. And what I did was I said, so what makes a successful studio experience, like a studio training experience for the customer? And I created a matrix that was the role of the device, the role of the trainer, the role of the customer, and the role of the room. So what duties and what tasks do each of these four players in the experience have?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And I wrote it all down and then I said, okay, now if I do this at home, there's no trainer. Okay, that one goes out. The room is unknown. So there's only the technology and the customer. So to build a as good or better customer experience, I cannot load more duties onto the customer. So everything that was the duty of the room or that was the duty of the trainer, has to be covered by the technology, by the product. Can I do this with tech? Do I know enough about this? Can I build this like whatsoever? I'm not really sure how to do this, but there's a leap of faith. Sometimes you have to like, we're going to figure it out down the road. Monday morning I pulled everybody into a conference room, I still remember that, and I said, \\\"Guys, we're going to stop what we're doing and we're going to build a home device.\\\" Like pale faces. People were like, how? What? We can't do this. This doesn't work. And everybody vetoed me, including my wife, who's technically the co-founder at the very beginning and she said, \\\"I don't think this works. We can't substitute the trainer and still have a good experience.\\\"\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The number one concern everyone had was how at-home users would be able to judge and adjust the intensity of the stimulation for themselves without majorly disrupting their workout experience.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" I cannot play the piano and dance at the same time. That doesn't work. So what was basically the preconception was for someone to dance, someone has to play the piano and that cannot be the same person. So if that's all you know, me telling you I can build a tape recorder and you don't need the piano at all is unfathomable. People just couldn't imagine that.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Bjorn knew he could make the suit a single-handed operation, but there were loads of other issues to solve first, starting with how to adjust the stimulation intensity.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"If I want to keep the temperature in the room, let's say 72 degrees, I first have to know a thermostat to then have a thermometer to then build a thermostat to then heat or cool the room. There was no thermometer in EMS training. We did not know what the muscle contraction was. We did not know how much the right intensity was. The way it has been done before is someone was feeling the room basically looking at the customer, is this enough, is this not enough, and then making a judgment call. You cannot put this into tech. So I said, but I think I understand enough about the physiology of the body that I can build a thermometer in the first place. And then step by step by step, I walked the engineers through that. But it was like that groundbreaking, really, really first principle thinking what needs to be true that I can build this? So really dumbing it down.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Next challenge, the exercises themselves.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Okay, we need content. Someone needs to tell me what to do, great. But then the content needs to be synchronized with the impulses so that the impulse is always coming at the right time. So basically instead of the impulses are coming from a clock, they're actually coming from the timestamp of the video. That was an innovation. What we ended up building then is I said, while we record the workouts with the trainers, the trainers are working out themselves. So why don't we record everything that they're doing, create a telemetry stream of that and then personalize it to the end consumer? So basically now what's happening is much more elegant than we ever thought was possible.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"They also had to consider the interplay between the suit, the trainer, and the user.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"When the customer is then basically using the device and the app, he hits play, the trainer on the video is telling them what to do, so that job is taken by technology. The telemetry is being replayed in a time swing with a timestamp of the video, so that never goes out of swing. I don't have to touch it because whenever the trainer is touching the screen on the screen, so basically like I see the trainer touch the device, my suit reacts, personalized to myself. So it's a very immersive experience that we at the end of the day created by making sure what roles have to be transferred from the trainer to the app versus not delegated to the consumer. So the consumer actually today has a better experience without a trainer in the same room.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"And then there was connectivity being applied in a feedback loop with a range of variables for each user.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"There's a relatively large impact of what's your skin conductivity on the feeling and on the impact that the impulse has on your muscle. So the total impedance of the body is like it goes through the suit, then it goes through the skin. Is there hair on the skin? Is there cream on the skin? Is it thick skin? Is it thin skin in different parts of the body? How much body fat is there? How much muscle mass is there? And then it goes all the way and comes out on the other side of the body where it has the same stack The other way around.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Pressure of the suit, compression, has a high impact on how conductive is this? Is the hair compressed? Is it not compressed? It's like the water compressed, not compressed? So one of these things we said, this is happening so fast, we put it into the electronics, not even into the electric portion. So that's happening a million times a second. Then the next set is, okay, so what's the next impulse like? Okay, that's communication between Bluetooth of the device and the iOS. The timing, that's also happening. It doesn't get out of sync 15 times a second. So if we sync this every 500 milliseconds, that's good enough. So this is something that we're syncing that often. Okay, what happens if I have a Bluetooth disconnect? Okay, how does it negatively impact the experience? How often do we actually have disconnects?\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"And finally, the needs of the suit itself.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: S\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"o the suit needs some moisture to create connectivity between the electrodes and the skin. When you prep the suit, we can tell you the suit is ready or not. Where's the threshold? Is it 500 ohms? Is it thousand ohms? Is it 2000 ohms? Is it 10,000 ohms? Where's the threshold? So some of that was actually us trying out the suit and then putting the threshold somewhere, figuring out how does that feel? How does that feel? Is that wet enough? Is that not good enough? There was a lot of trial and error, but then also it was like, where in the stack do you solve the problem? These experiential versus architecture decisions, those were really interesting.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah, I mean I can see how your combination of your experience, the behavioral scientists, the Deutsche Telecom, I can see how it all, it's all come together here. It's really fascinating.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I think the thing that really made us successful, so if your mindset is I know how this works, I've done this before, you're going to fail almost certainly. So an openness and curiosity, and Elon talks a lot about that, is this first principle thinking. If you have that mission statement clear, you can be successful because then you know what you're actually solving for. And for us it was I need consistency in the experience.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Am I very clear what I'm solving for? And then am I open-minded to come up with like, is this the most elegant solution? Is this the most elegant solution? Because adding more tech to it is super easy. Removing buttons, that was hard. We went into material science. At the end of the day, we created our own textiles that combine conductivity with water retention with, there's a color change so that you can see it's wet enough. So there was a lot of stuff. I had to learn seamless knitting, which is basically 3D printing for textiles. And I became a textile expert because otherwise we couldn't actually build anything like this. So what I'm saying is we had so many absolutely fundamental challenges that we had to overcome. We have three values in the company. It's called care, understand and lead. So you care for details and you care for each other and for your customer. But the most important thing for me besides care is understand. It's like you really need to understand the problem and you need to understand each other. And here it was understand the challenge so that you really can solve the problem. And even if the whole world is telling you this is the problem, it doesn't mean they're right. So those were really the fun moments. This is one of the biggest learnings, yeah.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah, I mean hardware is hard. It also, as you just said, it sounds like a ton of fun.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah, definitely. So we spent a lot of evenings, second shift, basically like six to nine just with the engineers when I had my normal CEO job done and we spent just, okay, 6:00, beer's open. What's the problem of the day? In 2019 when we built this first generation of the home device, we literally said we had an invention a day. What are we inventing today? That was literally what it was about. And yeah, fun journey, but be very clear about what you are really sailing and setting out to achieve is important.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"To help Katalyst scale and grow, Bjorn reached out to Artium. At that point, the pandemic had hit, the product was working, but Bjorn had been outsourcing all the software development and decided it was time for Katalyst to be more in control of its own destiny.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I was basically saying, okay, we're still going to stay outsourced for a bit, but have to really upgrade the infrastructure. We have to upgrade the quality of the software and the quality of the app, but also help us build a team. So basically it was kind of getting ready so that an internal team can take it over. I think you helped us get two or three engineers out of the team that we now have, and now we are in house. Basically we own the whole stack. But it was this transition period where for a certain amount of time, there was some cleanup, upgrading infrastructure, make it better monitored, make it more reliable, basically put these things in place and enable an internal team to really, really take it to the next level, but also help us get some of the talent.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg\"}),\": I always find it interesting when companies go from outsourcing to you now say you have your own internal capabilities. What was it that made you say, no, we have to be able to do this ourselves?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" If it's one of your core competencies or your core differentiators, which is the software experience around it, like hardware is important, so we own our hardware stack. Software we didn't own, but it's also a key differentiator. So we have to own that. So I'm a big believer to have in house what is your differentiator and key competency like differentiates you from the market? When I outsourced it, I didn't have a engineering leadership to actually lead the team, and I didn't have the bandwidth to do that. So I think once your team is big enough that you can have a director of engineering or VPN or something like that, then you can bring it in house. You cannot bring in house to engineers and hope they're doing the right thing. Who's leading that team? Who's leading that effort? Who's making sure the rhythm of business is there? Who's ensuring the rituals are there?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The other challenge also is for us especially, we need a lot of different skills. So we have textiles and firmware and hardware and iOS, and there's this AWS component, there's a streaming component. So there's so many different components that we have to touch. Generally with two engineers, you can't do this, so you need a little bit broader team. We were at a point where we wanted to own it where, hey, there's a shoot of new content on Sunday, something broke. People get up and fix it. It's not happening with an outsourced company. So this is why we're really happy with owning this in house.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"How are you thinking about scaling now? And I mean Katalyst is, it's a very premium product. You said you want to have a major dent in the CDC statistics of obesity and et cetera. How are you thinking about scaling impact? First of all, maybe you could actually share some numbers or context of where you are today and how you think about growing from here.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann: \"}),\"We've been sold out for two years. Basically we're catching up with supply. In terms of accessibility, I mean the device currently, if you Affirm it's just 66 bucks a month. If you tell me you can't afford that to significantly improve your health and fitness, then I don't know. So the challenge really that we have is just from what we call premium products is the perception we are willing to spend money on things if we think it works, right? We're spending money on wine and beer and entertainment and movie theaters. I think price is not really the problem. It is people understanding that it actually works. So we had two returns in the history of the company. One of them said I can't afford it anymore, and the other one said, I have so many other things that I do. I like to do those. Everybody else keeps it, loves it, uses it. That's the point. So to date, we don't have any triggers. We don't have any push notifications, we don't have any emails you didn't work out whatsoever. And people are using the product consistently because the thing itself works. So we haven't even started on the motivation side. I don't even have a team for that yet.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"People have that intrinsic reward already.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yes, exactly. So people are saying, I miss how my body feels like after I work out, and they literally get addicted to the thing itself. I don't need to tell them to do it, and that is the reason for me to be convinced, to convince myself this is so fundamentally different that I can reach the goal of changing people's lives at scale.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Amazing. Well, congrats on everything and I can't wait to see what comes next.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you for having me.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah, thank you.\"}),\"Bjoern Woltermann: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Great conversation. Thank you for your curiosity.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-letter-spacing\":\"0.04em\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That's Bjorn Woltermann, and this is Crafted from Artium. At Artium, we love helping innovators like Bjorn build game-changing tech. If you're creating something big and bold, let's talk. We can help you build great software, recruit high performing teams, and achieve the culture of craft You need to build great software long after we're gone. You can learn more about us at thisisartium.com and start a conversation by emailing hello at thisisartium.com. If you liked today's episode, please subscribe and spread the word about our 20-minute highly invigorating experience.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Bjoern Woltermann:\"}),\" During these 20 minutes, every 4 seconds, there's a stimulation happening.\"]})]});export const richText1=/*#__PURE__*/t(n.Fragment,{children:[/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"The thing that sets apart the teams that achieve their outcomes from those that end up mired in the graveyard of poor execution is \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"their ability to have a singular focus.\"})}),\" If you know the one thing you are optimizing for, all other things can be re-assessed. The ego melts away, and all there is is the task at hand. Nothing is sacred, and everything can be reevaluated in the name of the true goal.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"In my professional career, that singular focus is the delivery of working software to users that benefit from it.\\xa0I have enough notches under my belt that I envision myself to be the proverbial \u201CWolf\u201D of Pulp Fiction legend within the software world. You call me in, and Sh&t. Gets. Done.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Achieving these results is fulfilling to me. It gives me purpose and meaning. But it isn\u2019t easy. \"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"There are so many false premises, oxymorons, and red herrings in the world of software development such that avoiding getting pulled into one of a thousand pits of poor execution is like walking on the edge of a knife.\"})}),\" \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Everywhere you look there are experts with answers in search of problems, trying to pour advice into your particular set of difficulties. Desperately hoping to feel validated if their solutions happen to work for you, and moving along to the next ear that will listen if they don\u2019t.I believe that the difference between hand-wavy \u201Cadvice\u201D and hard-earned lessons is their closeness to the source. I hope that my words reach you as the lessons that I know they are, as they have all been hewn from the stone of real life problems, building real software applications that run real businesses and impact real users. \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"I come to you not as a manager or executive, but as a fellow practitioner. One of the hardened software developers who has done his fair share of the feature dev legwork, code commits, late night deployments, and legacy codebase spelunking to meet the deadlines, arbitrary or otherwise, imposed by the business.\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"We are each on our own journey as students of our craft. At some point we may become lucky enough to find those who confide in us, and look to us for wisdom and direction. We impart what we can while knowing full well we are still students ourselves. It is in that headspace of empathy and humility that I offer you the distilled learnings of my time thus far in the field of software development. I believe they will resonate with your problems and situation, for I have found these learnings to be at the core of every major problem in the industry I have ever faced.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Lesson 1 - The definition of Quality in Software.\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"When we all first began to write code, the difference between good code and bad code was whether it worked. We would wrestle with a problem for hours copy pasting various answers from forums on the internet in the hopes that one of them might finally get us that sweet release of functioning software. If and when we reached that solution, that magic piece of hacky, ugly, beautiful, at-least-it-freaking-works code, we would rejoice and move forward. Code reviews be damned, we had achieved success. We were junior, surrounded by more experienced and qualified professionals who would occasionally stop whatever nit-picky nerd holy war they were waging with one another to look down their noses at us, and we took whatever wins we could get.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Over time, we begin to feel more comfortable with solving common problems and implementing common features. More and more of it is muscle memory, and so we begin to have the mental capacity to consider the performance implications of our copy pasta\u2019d implementations. Oh snap, is that an oh of en squared?? Well that\u2019s not acceptable. Perhaps in the past that would have flown under the radar, but no more. We are junior no longer. And so we carry on with our newfound capability, subbing out arrays for hashes to get that sweet sweet oh of one lookup time because memory on modern machines is infinite right? All is right in our world, the code is perfect.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Then the business asks for what they see as a slight variation on a couple of existing features. Everywhere in the app where this happens, we also want to support that option. Simple enough right? Except that this particular feature isn\u2019t written as a single feature. As you look through the various sources you\u2019ve authored, you realize that you\u2019ve implemented the logic for this feature in 30+ different instances. While it may look to users like a single type of functionality, it is in practice many different features that all just seem similar in behavior. To update all of these many disparate code blocks, it would be best to unify them into a single configurable logic engine that is reused throughout the codebase. This aggregated engine would represent all of a certain \u201Cclass\u201D of functionality, if you will. So you write your new class that can handle all of a variety of similar-seeming use cases, and bind it to your 30+ different parts of the codebase. Suddenly you can add your new feature all at once. It is beautiful. You turn your newfound mental eye towards all repeated code in the codebase, unifying everything into new logic engines where necessary, or old engines when you find you can stretch a preexisting abstraction just enough to cram a new use case into it. An untold number of refactors later you\u2019ve done it! Not a single repeated line of code. You\u2019ve architected the perfect, glorious abstraction for every feature in the application.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The code is absolute perfection, and through your robust implementation the business has begun to scale. Your team has grown by a handful of new members and revenue projections that were previously out of reach are now taken for granted. The business expects that by doubling the development team, they should get double the feature outputs. This would be true if it weren\u2019t for the fact that all these new team members are peasants! They\u2019re constantly complaining about the complexity of the codebase and every time they touch any of the aggregate classes you have to review and inevitably fix their code as they don\u2019t understand the implications of their changes. One day there is a serious production bug. One of the new devs has changed a seemingly innocuous line of code that caused a whole suite of features to cease functioning properly. You\u2019re up late into the night pushing hot fixes. You are now a single point of failure for the engineering team. Your teammates should be grateful to your genius! Some of them are, but most are frustratingly the opposite. You have written a masterpiece but these plebeians are too ignorant to appreciate the genius that is your application!\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Or perhaps it is not a masterpiece at all, but rather a cluttered mess of increasingly poor abstractions that have been tortured and twisted into shapes unrecognizable from when they began. Perhaps the deeply coupled nature of all the code and low unit test coverage have resulted in a minefield of undocumented assumptions that are blowing the limbs off of unsuspecting junior devs on a regular basis. It is a tragedy, but many of us get stuck at this phase of self-development. We have spent so much time getting better and better and are surrounded by devs more junior than us, so it is easy to brush off their complaints and attribute them all to a lack of expertise. And while it is so easy to project all the problems outward, this is the most critical time to redirect them inward. Look at all these complaints not to find where they are flawed, but to find where they are valid. Is the code you\u2019ve written complicated? Is it difficult to understand? Have you built the tools and processes that would act as guard rails for new developers who are as junior now as you were in the past? The answer is as clear as it is painful. You now look back over the thousands of lines you\u2019ve committed with a new perspective and realize what you\u2019ve done. You\u2019ve created a monster. A beast so fickle and picky that only its original owner has any chance of taming it, and frankly, if you\u2019re honest with yourself, it\u2019s gotten difficult even for you. Those late night releases you spent wrestling with it are fresh in your mind. As you review your work of the last few months and years you are humbled to the ground. You are rocked to your core, for you have learned the deepest and most pernicious lesson about quality of code.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"In software, quality isn\u2019t just about whether the product \u201Cworks\u201D or is \u201Cperformant\u201D. Quality is about how easy it is to add new features, and how effectively new team members can understand and inherit the code.\"})}),\" \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Do the abstractions you\u2019ve introduced make sense within the domain? Is the complexity you\u2019ve introduced through your abstractions actually justified by the problems it solves? Or have you merged groups of functionality together into massive core classes simply to remove the amount of repeated lines of code, regardless of whether those lines may need to diverge in the future? Despite our primal urges to DRY (don\u2019t-repeat-yourself) up our code, repeated code is not itself a sin. If two pieces of repeated logic always change in tandem, then they should be unified. If two pieces of code change independently but happen right now to have the same logic, then they should not be unified.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The guiding principle of an abstraction should always be \u201CDoes this make the code easier to work with and understand?\u201D The introduction of complexity is only ever justified if it solves for even greater complexity.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"With this in mind,\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" automated testing becomes a requirement for software to be considered high quality. \"})}),\"A well-maintained test harness allows even new developers to have confidence that they are not creating bugs when adding new features. Think of your codebase as an organism. A living, breathing organism that will, as a necessity for survival, need to grow and evolve to keep up with its changing environment. The features in your application are its muscles and sinew, the UI is its colorful hide, and the test suite is its nervous system. Tests are how the application can detect if it\u2019s injured or uncomfortable. Ideally a nervous system is a network of sensors reaching throughout all the muscles and parts of the body to give continuous real-time feedback about the state of each piece. If a particular action causes pain, the organism knows to stop taking that particular action and to find another way. Without that feedback, all the muscles are still there, all the capabilities are still there, but it might run into a wall or break a limb and continue plowing forward without even knowing how much it's been damaged or the degree to which it\u2019s limbs no longer function. \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"With a well-maintained suite of unit and integration tests however, we can keep track of the health of all existing features with each new evolution and iteration we bring. We can add guide rails and protective gear to all the gnarliest parts of the codebase such that even the junior folks can attempt to tackle changes to the most complex parts of the system. \"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Perhaps they will struggle to actually implement new functionality, but at least they won\u2019t accidentally break anything. Over time your codebase has gone from a mindless beast that feels no pain, to a more sensitive and self-aware entity that communicates with you about its health and injuries. As a leader on your team you are creating an environment that is much more welcoming and healthy for your peers.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Setting new members up for success by lowering the barrier to entry is critical.\"})}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{}),\"Individual members of any team will come and go, and the quality of the code you write will determine whether your application is resilient to changes in the team roster or not. An experienced lead developer will guide their team towards the metric of maintainability, knowing that one of the most important user personas of the system is the fellow software developer straining to grow and evolve the application to adapt to the ever-changing future. \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"This is the most difficult challenge around quality yet. How do you know if your code is readable to other people who know less than you?\"})}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{}),\"Ask for feedback from your team. Onboard them into the system yourself and pay attention to what they find confusing and where they get stuck. Pay attention to your own cognitive load when working on various parts of the system. Are there deep dark caves in your source that make you feel like your brain is going to explode when you work with them? Each of these instances is an opportunity for you to decouple your abstractions and add more robust test harnesses. Take pride in it! For you are facing the most meaningful of challenges and taking on the mantle of a true leader. You are becoming a leader who looks out for your peers and considers the impact of your code on customers (feature-set), the business (performance), and your community (developer maintainability). This multifaceted mindset towards your work is why your team now looks to you as the paragon of Quality in Software.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"- Liam Yafuso, CTO at Artium\"})})]});export const richText2=/*#__PURE__*/t(n.Fragment,{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{style:{\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"left\"},children:\"Working with the likes of Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, and Jon Favreau, Nev Spiteri has created some of film and gaming\u2019s most incredible visual sequences. Now the CEO of Wevr has gone all in on building software to enable others to create their own virtual worlds \u2014 and to do so seamlessly via the cloud. The goal is to help creators spend more time creating, and less time configuring, updating, and debugging.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{style:{\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"left\"},children:\"On this episode, we dig into the unique needs that 3D world creators have, why version control is so critical to them, and how the pandemic led Wevr to move fully into cloud-based collaboration. Nev also peers into the future to share how augmented, virtual, and mixed reality, combined with the latest generation of AI, might change our world in \u201Cstrange and seemingly bizarre ways\u201D.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{style:{\"--framer-line-height\":\"1.15em\",\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"center\"},children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(34, 57, 206)\"},children:\"Listen to Nev Spiteri on Crafted, Artium's podcast about great products and the people who make them.\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Listen and subscribe to Crafted: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dont-throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall-how-to-build-an-mvp/id1649355311?i=1000633197154\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Apple Podcasts\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://open.spotify.com/episode/45MiAxxEOTkAFdBCQQbrZc\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Spotify\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://link.chtbl.com/NvazwHjY\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"All Podcast Apps\"})})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Full transcript below\"})}),\" \u2014 but we recommend you listen for the best experience.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),\"Creators want to spend their time creating and less time dealing with the infrastructure and the tooling, and we believe that we're enablers.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That's Nev Spiteri, CEO of Wevr, an award-winning interactive software studio that's been breaking new ground in gaming and visual effects since 2010. Nev is both a computer scientist and a creative, and not only has he built tools to create special effects, he's also directed incredible visual sequences himself, collaborating with the likes of Steven Spielberg and John Favreau. When he formed Wevr with his co-founders, the idea was to create a new type of studio for 3D content, but what he ended up doing was developing a whole new way to collaborate.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"As much as a company, we've been involved in creating these projects and experiences, we've been equally very excited about the underlying technology that enables creators.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"On this episode, we dig into the unique needs that film and game developers have, why version control is so critical to them, and how the pandemic led Wevr to go all in on cloud-based collaboration with Wevr Virtual Studio. Plus, I ask Nev to peer into the not-too-distant future of augmented, mixed, and virtual reality.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"If you combine that with what's happening with generative AI, you can really see the opportunity within five years where people can very much customize their reality in very strange and seemingly bizarre ways.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Welcome to Crafted, a show about great products and the people who make them. I'm your host, Dan Blumberg. I'm a product and engagement leader at Artium, where my colleagues and I help companies build incredible products, recruit high-performing teams, and help you achieve the culture of craft you need to build great software long after we're gone.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"My fascination around animation and digital content creation really started with my first video game that I played when I was 11 years old, and that's where I really got the bug around the possibilities of creating digital products. I went to college, studied computer science, and my first job out of school was working for a company called Wavefront in the early '90s. Wavefront is best known for the software called Maya, which is a 3D animation system that is still one of the industry standard animation platforms in use today 30 years later. I still remember my first day on the job at Wavefront, and it was just incredible to be using these early silicone graphics machines and seeing the capability and what's possible in terms of digital animation. This was really the early days of what used to be called flying logos in TV commercials, when computer graphics was really being used for the first time. This was before Jurassic Park and before a lot of the big boom of animation in movies in the early '90s.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"After Wavefront, Nev, moved into some high profile projects with the Rolling Stones Universal Studios in the Apollo 13 movie starring Tom Hanks.\"}),\"Tom Hanks: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Houston, we have a problem.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That was really my first foray in creating digital visual effects for all of these outer space shots that were part of that film, and I really got the bug of how cool it is to be able to create imagery that couldn't be done otherwise, couldn't be shot with a regular camera in the real world. So these were some of the early formative years, which eventually really led me to become super passionate about games and real-time 3D type of experiences.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Nev worked as a digital FX supervisor, and until 2008, he directed video game development at Electronic Arts.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Wevr was found in 2010. It was really the culmination of the previous couple of decades of my journey in animation, feature film, visual effects work, and then crossing over to real-time computer graphics and working in video games. The impetus for forming Wevr was really around the possibility of developing a new kind of digital studio that is creating new kinds of real-time 3D content. It could be games, it could be interactive story experiences, eventually VR, et cetera. There was one specific product in particular called TheBlu, which was essentially our first movie or the first product that we wanted to develop as a studio.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"TheBlu, essentially, started as a digital ocean simulation with different 3D species that are swimming around from computer to computer across the internet. The founders, Scott Yara, myself, really had a deep passion for the ocean and wanted to really celebrate the beauty of the ocean. The passion that the founding team had was really around the possibility of using technology and how technology's advancing our capabilities to create stories and interactive games. That was a really exciting sequence of steps where, after Electronic Arts, I was like, \\\"Now is the time. Here's the opportunity to go chase this dream that I had since much earlier.\\\" And that's how the journey began. The through line here is that in as much as a company we've been involved in creating these projects and experiences, we've been equally very excited about the underlying technology that enables creators, designers, animators, 3D modelers to create products like this. That was what led us as a company to always be thinking about not just the game and the experience itself, but what's the underlying technology and platform that enables it.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Lots of creators work on these projects. There are game designers, software engineers, 3D artists, sound designers, story and narrative creators, shaders, QA, and that's just to name a few.\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The process of figuring out how to all be on the same page, how to make the music together, if you will, is quite challenging, actually. COVID exacerbated that and has actually forced many game teams, including ours and companies, to better figure out what processes you need to be able to bring it all together. Like anything else, it's a lot of communication and streamlining the means of communications. Then beyond that, it's really about how you share progress, whether you're the art team iterating on the worlds and the characters and wanting to be able to share how that's coming together versus the engineers who are building the various game mechanics versus the designers who are testing out certain play concepts. Ultimately, it comes together in what's referred to as the build, because a game ultimately is, it's not just a sequence of images like a movie. It's actually a piece of software, and so the build is where it comes together.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The main through line of how all of this work collaboration gets baked into the thing that everyone gets to play test is a whole series of tools and infrastructure, the core of which is what's referred to as version control software. Git is very well known, probably the most popular version control software in the world. There's a platform called GitHub that tens of millions of developers around the world use, and at the core of that is version control, which allows various creators on the team, as they're making new versions, it's all being checked in, and you've got this automatic tracking of all of these different versions that are available online, and then the code and the assets.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"It all gets built through a compilation process, and you really want to try to optimize that and automate as much of that in the cloud because you have multiple team members working from different locations, and so you want to have, as much as possible, really tighten the loop from when a creator is making a change or an improvement and seeing the end result and being able to play it when you've got people around the world doing that together.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"You built a lot of these tools for yourself over the last decade plus at Wevr, and I'd love to understand how you then made the decision to take the software you'd built internally and make it available for others and create a whole new business line.\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yes. Like most other game studios or game companies throughout the world, we had to build our own pipeline. We had to use some combination of off-the-shelf software, this version control tool, this issue tracking tool. We had to set up our own servers and make things essentially work. That's a process that all game teams have to go through. You have to set up your own pipeline. There's lots of inefficiencies there and lots of challenges that are introduced in the course of building a game because it's easy for things to break. Right before COVID, we as a company were working on a very large project with Warner Brothers, a Harry Potter virtual reality project, and that was a three-year-long project. In the course of doing that, as COVID hit, it became really apparent to us that there's a whole bunch of optimizations and improvements that we needed to make the production process better.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"We started building out various components with version control, with build automation. We have over 80 plus contractors that were distributed in various geographic locations, and we started to really understand how to make this better. As the project shifted and we came out of COVID, it really became very apparent to us that there's a gap in the market. That the same problems we were encountering, every single other game team that we knew was also going through the same pain. There was a little bit of an aha moment with which Marcel, I, and Anthony had that this tooling and this infrastructure really could be made available as a service, and there's probably a really exciting business here to go after. A couple of years ago, we started to test the hypothesis, so we started to move down the path of saying, \\\"Okay, how do we now really productize this service and go through all of the motions of typical agile software development to really turn this into a robust and ongoing SaaS platform?\\\"\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"That's when we engaged with Artium and really wanted to partner with a company that can help us, A, get a team accelerated and in place that is really optimized towards building software as a service. That was the beginning of us building out Wevr Virtual Studio, as we came to call the platform and virtual studio. The name tries to capture this whole thing that we've been talking about. It's all of the services you would expect if you were in a game studio, but it's all virtual. It's all available in the cloud. A game team that is starting out today doesn't have to worry about on-prem hardware, how to cobble together all of these various tools. They can sign up for Wevr Virtual Studio and, at their fingertips, have access to a lot of expertise and infrastructure from decades plus of game development experts.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"How did you identify your early customers, do the validation work that you just described, and know that there was really truly a market for what you were considering building?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"There was a combination of things. One was our own bruises, our own, literally, pain that we've experienced for many years. That was a really strong motivation to go after something better. Secondly, we had some hunches based on our personal network, and then we obviously wanted to go a step further and validate that.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg\"}),\": \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"To make sure they weren't just drinking their own Kool-Aid. Nev and his team set up early access to their platform, did a few posts on LinkedIn, and got a conversation going.\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:'There were two themes which were emerging. One is, the feedback we were getting was like, \"Yeah, we\\'d like it to be easier. We want something that allows us to go faster.\" So ease translates to speed, and the second was cost, because the reinventing of the wheel ends up requiring your team to build out your own in-house expertise and dedicated resources. So if you just look at it from a cost basis perspective, we can be way more efficient by optimizing one platform and really being focused on the platform that services those needs. That signal was strong enough for us to be like, \"Okay, let\\'s keep going.\"'})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"On your website, you say one of the things that Wevr Virtual Studio premises is to lower the technical bar required to get set up. Could you elaborate a bit on that?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri:\"}),\" I\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"\\xa0think there's this general notion that when you want to set up your game studio, that all you got to do is go to the Unreal or Unity site, download the engine, and you're done. You're good to go. In a sense, that is true. These engines are incredibly powerful, most amazing pieces of software. The fact of the matter is, though, the minute you actually start to build your game and you are involving, \\\"Oh, you now need to bring on your next person, the second person on the team, or the third person.\\\" And if you are working remotely, you very quickly realize that there's a bunch of things you have to start to think about, including configuring your computers with the right versions of software and, \\\"Okay, I'm going to use Perforce. I have to pay these per-user license fees. We've got five people on the team and only one engineer on the budget, and now their whole time is going into fixing the build and supporting the other team members. Oh, shit.\\\"\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"All of those elements, we solve out of the box. That's what we mean by we're lowering the barrier to entry because it is now possible and we're seeing more and more, especially younger folks who are growing up wanting to become game designers. You quickly want to be focused on making the game itself, and you perhaps haven't had to deal with all of the infrastructure requirements to actually get it going.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"You also advertise on the site that one of the goals is to bring DevOps best practices from web development to real-time 3D development. I wonder if you could just expand a little bit more on what some of those best practices are and what that means in a 3D or XR context.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yes, so that's actually a very important theme. Over the last decades, there's been this incredible evolution in best practices around what's now generally called DevOps, and at the core of DevOps is CICBCD, continuous integration, build, and deployment. It's a set of software development practices that have developed that really optimize the process and allow you to reduce error, increase velocity, collaboration, a holder. There's a whole set of benefits. Now, in game development, it's been much slower for those practices to get adopted, and even five years ago, I would say most game teams, if you talk to them about what's CICBCD and DevOps, it's like, \\\"What do you mean? What's that?\\\" And that's really shifting now, and a lot of devs, they are growing up on GitHub, but there's a whole bunch of nuance and specific complexity that is unique to games.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Even the automation of the build process itself and getting these engines to run seamlessly in the cloud with the right configuration, there's a whole set of complexity that is not addressed in the traditional web DevOps stacks. That was part of the gap in the market that we felt like if we can solve this, we can really catch up and provide a DevOps solution that is industry standard, best-in-class but specifically tailored for game development.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"It's the overarching value prop here to just give creators more time to be creative.\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That's definitely the one-liner that co-founder Anthony often uses. It's like, \\\"Yeah, creators want to spend their time creating and less time dealing with the infrastructure and the tooling.\\\" And we believe that we're enablers. By the way, we've been talking a lot about games and game development, but the reality is that 3D, in general, is being much more broadly adopted even outside of the gaming industry. More and more so across automotive manufacturing, simulation, education, training. These industries are also now using 3D virtual worlds as part of their showcasing their brand, improving their manufacturing and design processes.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Game engines are really eating the world. Game engines are now being used across multiple industries, and the shift to spatial 3D is happening. There's a lot of talk about the metaverse, which is a very ambiguous term for a lot of people, but really, if you boil it down, it's simply that the internet is evolving, it continues to evolve, and in the next evolution, there is more 3D on the internet. The point being that software development and game development in general is shifting towards 3D. These game engines are going to be used more ubiquitously. So the opportunity here is to provide optimized methodologies of development that really are for any application of 3D game engines, not just games.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"We're recording this a day after a new season of The Mandalorian just came out. I know it's a TV show built on a game engine.\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yes. Season three launched Wednesday. Creator John Favreau, we had the good fortune of working with John for many years on a project called Gnomes & Goblins, and yes, the Unreal Engine is used in the production of that show. All of the major studios are producing several TV shows that, now at the core of the pipeline, is a real-time game engine, and that's been a running through line in our development, so it's a pretty exciting time to see that's all coming together.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Running a studio where filmmakers, game developers are paying you for the creative work that Wevr has done for years is a pretty different business than creating a software as a service company. What surprises did you encounter as you stepped into this new line of business?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"That was a very important and deliberate transition, and it is a transition. It's not a switch that you can flip overnight. That is really, really hard to pull off to be successful at both businesses because they are two very different businesses, as you say. We felt it was too ambitious to try to do both, so we felt like the right thing to do is to actually switch to transition, where are now our core focus of the company is entirely about the about the Wevr Virtual Studio platform, and we have some of the benefits of having worked directly in that space ourselves and collaborated with these other creators and creatives. That just carries forward very nicely because there are customers, and we can now service, work with, and collaborate with way more creators, teams, and game teams than we could before when we were just focused on a handful of things ourselves.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"I'd love to look ahead into the future a little bit more. We've talked a little bit about XR, or the various enhanced realities, and I'm curious, what do you see in the VR, AR, XR space that feels like science fiction today but is going to be totally commonplace in a few years?\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Great question. Five years ago, we were one of the early teams that had access to some of these early VR headsets, and when we put this thing on, people really thought it was magic. Really like, \\\"What the hell is going on? I'm now in the ocean, and there's this giant whale swimming.\\\" People would take off the headset. People still have that experience today when they try VR, some of them for the first time. But the point being that it was and still is largely a category of tech that, if you explain it to someone, they think you're talking about science fiction. Where we are now relative to where we're going to be in a few years, I think that in the next five years, there really is a quantum leap in mixed reality.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:'Being able to walk through the world five years from now, or at least parts of the world, maybe your own living rooms or certain specific areas where you can do search and replace on reality in real time, search and replace on reality in real time to me means, \"Oh, the cars are red.\" No, the cars are blue now because I want them to be blue. That sounds like science fiction. What are you talking about? But if you combine that with what\\'s happening with generative AI, you can really see the opportunity within five years where people can very much customize their reality in very strange and seemingly bizarre ways.'}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),\"I\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"\\xa0was just going to say I'm equal parts excited and terrified by what you just described.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),\"It is a little disconcerting, let's put it that way.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"What's next for Wevr? How are you building towards what you see coming in the future?\"}),\"Nev Spiteri: I\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"\\xa0think for us right now, it's less about being too future-focused. Really, what excites us today is, we have the beginnings of a really solid platform that solves some real problems for creators today. We're all about like, \\\"Hey, let's make you productive today, tomorrow, and next week.\\\" This really needs to be able to be in a loop where you're working with real game teams and customers and evolving very much based on what customer needs and requirements are, and we're on that path.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Awesome. Nev, thanks so much for taking the time today. This was really fascinating.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri: \"}),\"Awesome. I enjoyed it too. I don't often get to talk about stuff. I spend most of the time doing things.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Okay. I hope it was cathartic.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"That's Nev Spiteri, and this is Crafted from Artium. At Artium, we love partnering with creative people like Nev to build their visions of the future. If you are building something new, let's talk. Our goal is not only to help you build great software but also to recruit high performing teams and to help you achieve the culture of craft you need to build great software long after we're gone. You can learn more about us at thisisartium.com and start a conversation by emailing hello@thisisartium.com. If you like today's episode, please subscribe and spread the word because first-time Crafted listeners can hardly believe their ears.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Nev Spiteri:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:'People really thought it was magic, like, \"What the hell is going on?\"'})]})]});export const richText3=/*#__PURE__*/t(n.Fragment,{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{style:{\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"left\"},children:\"\u201CHighly complex consumer journeys, lots of entrenched interests, very challenging stakeholder management, and extremely important to your life\u201D. That\u2019s the magic mixture of business interests that Kira Wampler says speaks her love language. Those passions led her to Redesign Health, a company whose mission is to transform healthcare. So far, Redesign Health has incubated, funded and scaled over 50 companies that are taking innovative approaches to cancer care, mental health and more \u2014 and they plan to launch 50 more.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{style:{\"--framer-line-height\":\"1.15em\",\"--framer-text-alignment\":\"center\"},children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(34, 57, 206)\"},children:\"Listen to Kira Wampler on Crafted, Artium's podcast about great products and the people who make them.\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Listen and subscribe to Crafted: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dont-throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall-how-to-build-an-mvp/id1649355311?i=1000633197154\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Apple Podcasts\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://open.spotify.com/episode/45MiAxxEOTkAFdBCQQbrZc\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Spotify\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\" | \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://link.chtbl.com/NvazwHjY\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"All Podcast Apps\"})})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Full transcript below\"})}),\" \u2014 but we recommend you listen for the best experience.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"I have a real enduring and abiding belief in the power of technology and business model transformation to really fundamentally improve people's lives.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),\"That's Kira Wampler. She's a venture chair and head of startup success at Redesign Health, which was founded in 2018 with a mission to transform healthcare.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" We have incubated, funded and are on our way to scaling over 50 companies, 5-0.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" And Redesign plans to double that to 100 startups. The new businesses take innovative approaches to cancer care, mental health, women's health, and more. On this episode of Crafted, Kira shares how her experience at Intuit, as the chief marketing officer of Lyft and serving on boards led her to healthcare. She'll tell us where she sees opportunities and landmines in trying to transform this massive industry. Also, we'll find out what exactly a venture chair is.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"We made it up. So that's the fun part about joining startups early, is you get to make things up.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" Welcome to Crafted, a show about great products and the people who make them. I'm your host, Dan Blumberg. I'm a product and engagement leader at RDM, where my colleagues and I help companies build incredible products, recruit high performing teams, and help you achieve the culture of craft you need to build great software long after we're gone. I'd love to start with some of the early experiences that you have. You've been front and center in a lot of very influential startups.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"Sure. I grew up in product marketing and growth. I've been in the valley since the late 90s. I like to say that I've either been in, been around, participated in most of the movies since the late 90s, but I'm really very fortunate to have grown up at Intuit. I spent my formative years in my career in marketing and product leadership roles at Intuit on the small business side of the house, and then I became the very first CMO at Lyft in the super, super early days of Lyft. Fewer than 30 cities, fewer than 300 people, fuzzy mustache, fist bump front seat time, and was part of that incredible ride of scaling that company, really refining the brand and making the brand a household name, which was just a tremendous experience. So basically, longtime product marketing and growth leader in the valley. And I have a real enduring and abiding belief in the power of technology and business model transformation to really fundamentally improve people's lives.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),\"You said you were fortunate to have started at Intuit. I'd love to learn a little bit more about your time there and what you learned and how it's set you up for success going forward.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"I absolutely just credit my time there for where I am today, just full stop. And I think one of the real hallmarks of that business is that the heartbeat of Intuit is the customer. We cared deeply about the customer experience. We did extensive follow me homes, which was sort of one of my all-time favorite practices where I was the brand manager for QuickBooks for Accountants. So my follow me home was sitting in accountant offices, watching them for six, eight hours a day, provide services to their clients, work on their clients' books, use QuickBooks, and it was just a tremendous experience for how do you understand what's happening really for your customers, and then how can you solve real hard problems well with what you're delivering for them.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" On a follow-me-home exercise, you see things that you would never see if you just surveyed customers or talked to them on the phone or video. For example, Kira says she observed a curious behavior among the accountants she was building products for. They would, and remember this is 20 years ago, take out their handheld calculators, their 10 keys to check QuickBooks' math.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" And it was like, wow, that's amazing. First of all, they're trusting software but verifying, which is awesome. So we made a pitch to put 10 key into QuickBooks so you could pop it open with a little command and then do your own 10 key. And we got a lot of pushback because of course the engineers are like, \\\"Why would you test the math of software?\\\" And it was like, \\\"Well, but they're doing it and so let's acknowledge that we know they're doing it. And look, they may want to use a 10 key for other reasons, it's fine.\\\" So we did, we built it in as a little delighter and it was one of the most highly commented on positive things that we put in, and we had built some really big exciting features for that year, and it's just funny. So that's a small little example of what you learn in those kinds of follow me homes that create real empathy with your customer. And I credit that DNA at Intuit for really being the reason why that company was able to not only survive, but thrive through tremendous transformation.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),\"You mentioned the fist bumps and the pink mustaches and your CMO days at Lyft. I'm curious what experiments you ran there and how you understood that customer better and positioned that brand, that product.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" We could probably spend a year having a conversation there. There was so much to learn because if you put yourself in that time, I mean this was 2014, it was still very much the case from a consumer perspective that you did not get in cars with strangers. Today, not only do we not think anything of getting in a car with a stranger, we sleep in a stranger's house, we borrow a stranger's car, but we were in very early innings of that back in 2014.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:'And so a lot of the work that we did was really about encouraging and creating an environment for dignity and respect within the car and that you\\'re not just behind a glass shoving cash through to someone, but it was really about, \"Hey, we are humans sharing this ride together.\" And then obviously, we launched Lyft Line, which was about multiple humans sharing a ride together, which is all fundamentally about how do we make something like carpooling actually efficient and lower the number of people driving their own cars on the road and increasing utilization of cars. So a lot of the programs and experimentation really centered around creating and fostering that humanity in the ride.'}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" With software eating the world, Kira thought about what it might eat next, and she formed a thesis around health and wealth.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"Both of these categories have highly complex consumer journeys and consumer experiences heavily regulated, lots of entrenched interests, very challenging stakeholder management, extremely important to your life. And I like to say that those things are all speaking my love language. I grew up in small business accounting, payroll payments and taxes. So if that's where you grew up and you loved it, then you're going to want to be in evermore sort of complex categories and how can you really drive change. The second component was both of those categories are in the relative early innings vis-a-vis business model and technology transformation.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" Kira had an aha moment at a visit to her doctor.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:'Kira Wampler: I, like a good patient, filled out all the forms online the night before and then the next day, the girls at the desk are like, \"Oh, here\\'s all this paperwork, you have to fill it out.\" And I was like, \"I did it online last night.\" And they\\'re like, \"Oh, we don\\'t have it.\" And I realized that they must have been running everything on a batch process, so missed the batch. And I was like, \"Ladies,\" I\\'m picking up my phone, I\\'m like, \"I can push a button on my phone pretty much anywhere in the world now and get a car to me. And yet here we are and the forms I filled out online didn\\'t arrive to you this morning.\" And they were kind of like, \"Mm-hmm, here\\'s the paper.\" So it\\'s kind of astonishing how these two categories that are so critical to our lives were relatively behind compared to other categories, which then meant my background was well-suited to supporting companies in those two categories. So that\\'s kind of where the original thesis started.'}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Following up on her thesis, Kira joined the boards of wealth management startup, Personal Capital, and oral health company, Candid. That's when she met the founder of Redesign Health, Brett Shaheen. And soon, she joined him at Redesign full-time.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Redesign Health has been around since 2018 and in that period of time, we have incubated, funded and are on our way to scaling over 50 companies, 5-0. So it's really just an extraordinary experience and just to see the vision come to life over these last few years of what does it mean to innovate at scale, what are the benefits of scale, which we're certainly seeing today. And I think more importantly, what does it mean when you innovate at scale in healthcare, and what does it look like to have companies in the world that are fundamentally changing people's lives for the better in really hard areas like chronic diseases, cancer, pain? We have three different companies focused on behavioral health and developmental disabilities. It's just we have this real opportunity to go after very hard problems and then build on everything we've learned from the early companies and everything we're continuing to learn as we sort of grow and build partnerships and relationships.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Can you describe how the venture creation process works at Redesign? And maybe you can do so in the context of a particular startup.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"So one of the things that's quite important to know about Redesign is that we build all of our companies de novo, not new, inside of Redesign Health. So we don't go look for companies and bring them onto the platform. We also don't have people come onto the platform and build companies on the platform. And so for our model, we have a team of folks who are all day long kind of hammering on ideas and they're generating ideas and running diligence on ideas. And those ideas are coming from multiple places. And what that team is doing early is really investigating the opportunity. How big is this? They're investigating sort of problem space, white space, how can we solve this problem well early?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And then the other big thing they're doing in the first part of the ideation process is what I like to describe as ensuring there aren't existential risks. And look, there are plenty of existential risks in healthcare. And so typically what happens when we discover one and usually it's regulatory, is that it doesn't mean we kill it. We just sort of like, okay, put it in a backlog and we might revisit that as the regulatory environment changes or as other dynamics change. So typically what happens is then by the time you get to the midpoint of our process, we attach, we assign people like myself, so venture chairs, to the idea, and then the venture chair is now partnering closely with that ideation team to shepherd the idea through the back half of the process.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And at the simplest level in the back half of the process, we're really digging into operationally, what would it mean to build this company? So what kind of CEO would we hire? What kind of founding team does this need? What will be the degree of difficulty of bringing that together? What does the revenue model look like? I think this is a place where many people who start healthcare businesses in the wild on their own, especially folks who don't know much about healthcare, don't fully understand how healthcare is paid for, which is only 4% is paid for by a consumer, 96% is paid for by someone else.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And so these are often very hard businesses to build because the person using the service isn't always the person paying for it. And so how do those incentives line up and how does that all work? So we're really working through now what I would describe as the operational risks of the business. And what we're doing before we agree to green light the business is trying to clear as many of those risks as we can, and that doesn't necessarily mean that the risk goes away, but that we have a plan for it.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"So you serve as a venture chair at Redesign Health, what does that mean?\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Right, and I appreciate you asking because we made it up. So that's the fun part about joining startups early, is you get to make things up that you think are the right thing to do and experiment with it. And then it turned out to work. But we had an early perspective back when I first met Brett, and then when I came on full-time in 2020, that these companies would really benefit from hands-on support early from extremely high impact leaders with experience. So venture chairs join the idea at the midpoint of the process. We shepherd the idea through the back half of the ideation process. Should it get green lit, then we become the board members and the business, we hire the CEO and the founding team, and then our job is to support those CEOs to be the best that they can be. And all of our venture chairs are former CEOs or executives who also have extensive board experience. We come from a wide variety of backgrounds, which is very intentional so that we can play off and support each other. There are 12 of us today.\"}),\"Dan Blumberg: T\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"ell us more about Jasper Cancer Care. You told us that the idea started with a two word idea.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" Yeah.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" What was that and what happened next?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/t(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:[\"So Jasper started with a couple of sentences, then this is in the old days, this is 2020, but a couple of sentences in a spreadsheet.\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The before times?\"}),\"Kira Wampler: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"In the before times. It said something as follows, which is \\\"Why is it easier to get ready for having a baby or easier to plan a wedding than it is to go through what is a major change in life state when you got a cancer diagnosis?\\\" And the observation there was we're sort of a wash in digital tools to help you plan for these other life events. And basically for the most part, if you're a cancer patient, when you hear those words, you know have cancer, one of the things most people do is actually go get a binder. They get a three ring binder, and they're planning their cancer journey with a three hole punch pieces of paper and a binder, which just seems completely insane given how much digital tools help us manage and navigate and be prepared for our day-to-day.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"So in that journey, we had a team, I mean at the time we were very small, so the team was pretty small, doing the ideation and diligence work, what I would describe as typical sort of desk side research, but then really getting deep into consumer insights and user insights and some really deep research with patients, caregivers, supporters, what are the pain points? And the thing we just kept hearing over and over again, especially from patients and caregivers, was this just extremely strong sense of feeling overwhelmed and feeling a lack of being prepared and not knowing what is coming next and what should I do about it. And part of this is a function of what exists in the world.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"So what did exist before Jasper, you would go to our friend, Dr. Google, and you would plug in the cancer diagnosis you got and you'd get thousands of links. Then you would hit one of those, there'd be thousands of pages. Then what a lot of folks do is kind of just turn to these pieces of paper they would get from their doctor, which certainly doesn't help you know, \\\"Hey, what do I do ahead of my first chemo appointment? And by the way, it's not just like, how do I get prepared clinically, but who's going to pick up the kids if that's during my appointment, and how is the dog going to get walked?\\\"\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"So our other real insight here was that this feeling of being overwhelmed was not just about the clinical diagnosis and the clinical treatment, but was about your whole life. And so we started with something very simple. We started with the digital planner where you enter in a little bit of information about yourself and your diagnosis, and then we auto-generate a planner and a planning tool to help you navigate what's coming. And then that tool suggests highly vetted content that we developed with our clinical partners so that you'd had the right information at the right time depending on where you were in your journey. And today, close to 18,000 people use Jasper. We have extraordinary partnerships with major organizations like Memorial Sloan Kettering, Cigna, and we have just a tremendous team who are running just a really, really high impact business and partnering really deeply and closely within the healthcare system to make it a better experience all around. And that's the core, that's how we think about the companies we build at Redesign.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" One of your roles as venture chair when a startup is ready to reach that next level is the CEO is not necessarily someone who is involved in the earliest days. You often go out and find a CEO, bring them on at that scale up phase. What do you look for in that person?\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),\"Yeah, it's a good question. So one maybe tweak I would make is we hire the CEOs pretty much right after we green light, which means what exists is the diligence work that we've done, the memo, research, maybe we do have some unfair advantages with partners, et cetera, but it is still very much... I like to say it's not even wet cement that you can figure out where you're navigating, there's still ingredients that you're mixing before you put it in the mixer. So our CEOs are absolutely founders of this business. They're starting from the very earliest innings with us as well. I think we like to say that they're starting with kind of a springboard advantage, so they have a springboard to success.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"In terms of what we look for, there are three core competencies that we've really narrowed down. One is action orientation. So a real bias for action. And that is a no-brainer when you're starting a company, you have to have a strong bias for action because time is not your friend. It pairs directly with high decision quality because obviously, you hope that your leader is not only moving quickly, but most of the time, the decisions he or she are making are the right ones. Now with the third competency or really kind of the foundation, and I would tell you now looking at across all of our CEOs at Redesign plus all of the CEOs with whom I've worked in my career, the real foundational competency for the highest performing CEOs is a growth mindset. And at the core, that's like how well do I take \\\"Feedback\\\"? And by the way, feedback here is capital F with air quotes. One of the sub bullets of putting customers first and deeply understanding customers is feedback as a gift.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And so feedback isn't just what your boss tells you. It's like what is the data telling you? You have to have this sort of curiosity, openness, you're not defensive. We're putting this out into the world. What are we learning? How are people using it? I mean, if you go back to the earliest days of Instagram when it used to be called Burbn, what Kevin realized, he's like, \\\"People aren't really using most things here, but the one thing people are doing is they're using this kooky filter thing with pictures and they're changing their profile picture a lot. Maybe we should turn it into a photo thing.\\\" And so the best CEOs are moving fast, they have a bias for action. They're generally speaking, making good decisions, and they have this extraordinary foundation from a growth mindset perspective where they're open, they're curious, they're open to the feedback. And why does that matter? Because hey, in the times where you're moving quickly and you didn't make the right decision, you want to know as fast as you can that you didn't make the right decision, and then what are you going to go do about it?\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And I think one of the things that's really cool about the Redesign platform, and this was... Brett had an early view, and we are seeing it come to life today that in order to truly transform healthcare, you can't just have one type of person involved. You really need a diverse group of people going at all of these problems. So you need people with deep healthcare expertise and you need technologists, and you need people who understand investing and you need people who understand consumer experiences and the latest and greatest in terms of user experiences. And so definitionally, that means you're not going to have this stereotypical founder. One of the things we've observed in our CEO community is that we really do have such a cool diverse group of CEOs who are chosen that way to have a better chance of transforming healthcare. So we see this really nice diverse mix of CEOs with very different backgrounds, but they all have these core three competencies.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Yeah. I'm curious about Redesign Health itself as you all have scaled so rapidly. You mentioned 50 startups so far and only almost five years now, and I know there are plans to double that. What scaling problems have you had to tackle as you've grown and how are you setting yourselves up to double it again?\"}),\"Kira Wampler: \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"So I think in terms of how we think about scale, one really important thing is kind of coming back to what we learned at Intuit, which is putting that customer first and being really clear that the person we're serving is the CEO and his/her founding team and why, because helping that CEO be successful enabling their success means that they're going to have the highest likelihood of transforming healthcare. And simultaneously, we're very clear that our job is to enable and support CEOs, not to do things for CEOs. We hired these folks because they are extraordinary at what they do, and we're giving them a springboard. And so what that's meant, which I think has been really powerful for us, is that we focus all day long on how do we create scalable services and solutions that are enabling and not doing.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And that's been a big unlock for how we think about how we scale into evermore companies. How are we A, really crisp on who we're serving, B, focused on our job of enabling them, which then means three, it's a lot easier to work through what are the scalable solutions systems, tools that we would use to do that. If I start with this concept of growth mindset and feedback, I think one of the real reasons I joined Redesign was I felt like if you were to look at growth mindset in Wikipedia, the first picture you would see would be Brett Shaheen, the CEO. He just has an extraordinary growth mindset.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"And I think what that really means for us as we grow and scale is like we're constantly evaluating what we're doing, and how do we do what we do better? How do we do it in a more efficient way so we can serve more people? And how do we just get smarter and how does every time we're learning something, how do we use that intuition and those insights to help us make the next company better, but more importantly, to help everybody who's also building companies. And I think that it's a really interesting set of network effects that you start to see, especially now that we have 50 companies and tens and tens of CEOs and then hundreds of founding team members, and it's been a really cool journey.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg: \"}),\"Yeah, amazing. Thank you.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler: \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Thank you. Yeah, this was a lot of fun.\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Dan Blumberg:\"}),\" That's Kira Wampler and this is Crafted from RDM. If you're building innovative solutions in health, wealth or wherever, let's talk. At RDM, we build incredible products to recruit high performing teams and help you achieve the culture of craft you need to build great software long after we're gone. We artisans love partnering with creative people to build their visions of the future. You can learn more about us at thisisrdm.com and start a conversation by emailing hello at thisisrdm.com. If you like today's episode, please subscribe and spread the word because at Crafted, we're fun, we're smart, and we're Webby honored.\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Kira Wampler:\"}),\" Those things are all speaking my love language.\"]})]});export const richText4=/*#__PURE__*/t(n.Fragment,{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\",\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Many apps based on generative AI have hit the market since November 2022. The lion's share of these apps do nothing more than place a thin layer of an interface on top of the raw generative AI platform. We need to create deeper apps to survive the current gold rush.\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The thin layer\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Take, for example, Lensa. This app allows you to upload a few selfies and uses them to generate up to 125 variations of yourself. These include images of you as an astronaut, a wizard, and a sketch. They charge $7.99 for the service. You can do exactly the same thing for free using Mid-Journey directly, however, requiring a few more clicks and some prompt engineering.\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"These types of apps have flooded the market and will continue to do so, however, they will exist like a flash in the pan, a repeat of the dot-com boom's rapid successes that quickly faded leaving behind the winners of that revolution.\\xa0\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"The deeper win\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"The apps that endure will be the ones that do more than simply give users direct access to generative AI.\"})}),\"\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:\"They will add value to the interaction through personalization and context. They will simplify the interaction to make it intuitive and human. They will add enriched data sets or access that the LLM-based AIs cannot natively do.\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"These three layers: personal context, enhanced interaction, and enriched data form the backbone of the new applications.\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Personal context\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"LLMs learn from a mass of public data. When interacting with them through prompts we effectively instruct them where to look in the massive data space. A good prompt helps refine contextual understanding and define areas to ignore. It\u2019s a rapid reduction from all knowledge to specific knowledge.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"We can think of it as an exercise in the reductive scope of domain space, cultural context, personal psychology, and individual situation\"})}),\" - each of these as the overlapping circles of a Venn diagram. The more a prompt zeros in on this, the better the prompt completion (or response) from the AI.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"Apps that define this scope through interaction with a user, either through direct interaction or through data, return more value.\\xa0\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:\"For example, an app that mixes demographic and psychographic data from google analytics, with profile and historical data from a user can more readily provide real value to that user through better prompt engineering. The user does not even need to be aware of any of this happening, increasing the magic of the experience.\\xa0\"})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Enhanced interaction\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Chat interfaces are boring. We are used to them and they provide the most basic way of interacting with an LLM, but we are soon going to get bored of this. Mid-Journey did something interesting by using commands in chat in Discord as an interface, but many found this clunky and unusable, and a large population found it too complex.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"The future of user experience and interaction design lies in making multi-modality as seamless as communication between two humans. When interacting we switch seamlessly between telling, showing, and writing.\"})}),\" \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"These take many forms such as sharing or showing online content, drawing a picture on a napkin, pointing to an example, writing an SMS message, or standing up and demonstrating. Interacting with AI will head in this direction.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"With prompt engineering comes a new challenge as the user experience comes from the AI response, yet the prompts are often generated as part of the engineering process. Business considerations also play a part. \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Prompt engineering requires input and collaboration between design, product, and engineering. We have had great success pairing an engineer with a CXO or designer to work on the prompts, achieving a balance between business, UX, and technology demands.\\xa0\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Enriched data\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"The data that trains LLMs are mostly out of date, and with every retraining, by the time the process is complete, they are out of date again. However, the training is not about the data as it is about the ability to reach logical completions to prompts.\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"ChatGPT, although trained in data pre-September 2021 can still handle most completions accurately. However, when asked for more up-to-date data it will get it wrong or say it does not know.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Adding more recent data that can be incorporated into the responses separates a generic generative AI app from a truly useful one that adds value.\\xa0\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Another failing of LLMs lies in their ability to do math. This limits their use in science, engineering, and other specialized domains. However the integration of datasets and knowledge bases such as Wolfram Alpha allows them to incorporate up-to-date specialized knowledge and mathematical abilities.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Multiple plug-ins and integrations allow the creation of consumer apps that take advantage of current knowledge to make more accurate predictions. The output of one service, forms the input of the next, with the enhancement of the LLM inserted into the transfer. This unleashes the power of well-designed consumer apps.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"How to build it\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"We sketched the interaction between the user, the system, and the models in \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://miro.com/\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Miro\"})}),\". The ease of movement and categorization of stickies made it easy for us to take into account the technical, business and UX needs when sketching the interactions. These sketches were then transferred to \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://mermaid.js.org/\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Mermaid\"})}),\" so a more dynamic model could exist along with the codebase. We keep it up to date, along with an explanation of each element in the flow.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"This type of sketching helps in many ways, including:\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"ul\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"understanding the flow of data through the system\\xa0\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"identifying which models (or types of models) to use\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"identifying points of enhancement to the data without user interaction to increase the magic of the UX\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"identifying where prompts are needed to talk to the model\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"identifying and estimating potential latency issues\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"provides a tangible asset\\xa0 communication between software engineers, data scientists, prompt engineers, product owners, and designers\\xa0\"})})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"This also has the benefit of transparency and documentation for the wider team.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Prompts\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"A singular prompt can generate an ongoing interaction that leads to a pretty amazing response. For example, I created a single prompt that generates an entire backlog for a project, powered by answering five to ten questions. However, I created another that generates an estimated roadmap, one that creates a user journey map, and yet another to list the epics needed for a system. \"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"The real power of an AI-powered application goes beyond the single prompt, using memory and different ways of \u201Cthinking\u201D to provide real value.\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Multiple prompts\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Chat interactions require a back-and-forth between the user and the agent (AI). However, to truly turn it into the app, there need to be additional inputs into the thread of the conversation. These include but are not limited to:\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"ul\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Extraction of specific information from user inputs\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Interpretations or moderation of user inputs before sending to the model\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Interpretations or moderation of the agent outputs before sending them to the user\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Enhancement of data in either direction based on additional context\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Adjustment of language and tone before sending to the user\"})})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"li\",{\"data-preset-tag\":\"p\",children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-font-size\":\"14px\"},children:\"Summarisation of data before output to the user\"})})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Any of these interactions may require additional prompts to the model to generate new content that more directly meets the needs of the user and the system to create value.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"We have found that the current growing systems that help in this process, such as the very popular Langchain, need to provide more value to an experienced engineer. Using platforms like Google Colab and \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://livebook.dev/\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Livebook\"})}),\" creates a flow that merges code, data, and prompts to manage the development of a conversation between the LLM, the system, and the user.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"On prompting and coding\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Using Livebook allows us to develop prompts and code side by side. This fundamental change to the approach of how to interact with a machine highlights three tiers: prompts to get language responses (using AI API), messages to get user responses (using chat interface), and code to interact between the two.\"})}),\" \"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"This method allows us to massage prompts quickly, find edge cases, adjust language and tone, assess the quality of feedback, and see the impact of new integrations quickly. As always, rapid feedback and iteration is the key to successful user experience and consistency.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The next step will be to extract the Livebook content into a library that can be used by both Livebook and the consumer application, allowing for rapid development of the integrated code-data-prompt paradigm with easy release to master. John Wilger can elaborate on the details of this for interested engineers.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The process of prompt refinement is not one that ends and will continue in parallel with the code and interface development and beyond. Creating interfaces for users other than coders to update prompts will be a fundamental part of developing AI-based systems.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Memory\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Memory plays a crucial part in both personalizations for the user as well as learning across the system. I\u2019ve written extensively on AI memory so I will not go into detail here. Reach out if you want to know more details.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(67, 67, 67)\"},children:\"Chat memory\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Chat memory (session memory) is the first level. Each input from the user needs to be remembered for the next response. When using chatGPT this functionality is built in, however, when engaging the GPT models through API outside of the playground, this functionality is managed. There are third-party systems that have entered the market that help with this, however, again, most do not provide enough value to a seasoned engineer and are better built in-house per project. This may quickly change as new solutions enter the market.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(67, 67, 67)\"},children:\"User memory\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"When dealing with consumer apps, having memory across sessions for users is paramount. The system needs to remember the user's needs, preferences, choices, and interactions.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"This can be done in different ways. One common emerging practice is to send the history of a chat to the LLM and ask it to summarise. This completion can then be stored and used as input in the next session. When these summaries of each session become too many, then they can all be sent to the model for a summary of summaries. This degrades the memory over time but is usually sufficient to fulfill the needs of the platform. At any point, the details of any area can be repulsed from the database for a fresh summary.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Another method is to pull out specific data for the interactions with a user and store just these items in a database. These can then be sent back at the start of a new session.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"New methods will emerge over the coming months. Stay tuned.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(67, 67, 67)\"},children:\"System memory\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"For deeper memory that remembers data across an entire system and can expose new trends or be used as new training data to search data, the emerging trend is to use vector databases.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Vector databases are specialized storage systems designed to efficiently store, manage, and query large collections of high-dimensional vectors. These databases are particularly useful for AI systems, as they enable them to have a form of memory by allowing quick retrieval of similar or relevant information.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"In AI systems, data is often represented as vectors in a high-dimensional space, where each dimension corresponds to a specific feature. These systems, particularly those based on deep learning, use vector representations to capture complex patterns and relationships between data points.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"By providing a scalable and efficient way to store and retrieve vectors, vector databases help AI systems have memory in the sense that they can quickly access and utilize previously learned information. This capability is critical for tasks like similarity search, pattern recognition, and recommendation systems, where finding the most similar items in a large dataset is crucial.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Multiple models\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"LLMs are the tip of the iceberg. They have facilitated the creation of other deep learning models, as well as created a human-acceptable interaction paradigm. These other models can generate images, videos, and audio, synthesize and enhance data, and more. \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"We must know which model to use for each task so it can be assigned properly to get the desired result. This can be done either manually or automatically. Manually assigning a model requires predetermining the best model for the task. This decision is not just a technological one as cost, efficiency, and accuracy all play a role.\\xa0\"})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"It is very likely that \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://medium.com/geekculture/list-of-open-sourced-fine-tuned-large-language-models-llm-8d95a2e0dc76\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"open-source models\"})}),\" will overtake walled gardens rapidly, much as open-source software effectively killed proprietary languages and frameworks - and for the same reasons - increased breadth, reduced cost, and rapid development. LLMs like \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://open-assistant.io/\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Open Assistant \"})}),\"and \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://gpt4all.io/index.html\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"GPT4All\"})}),\" open up the possibility of not having to pay for Open AI prices and getting better data over time.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Automated selection of models is on the rise.\"})}),\" \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://github.com/microsoft/JARVIS\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Microsoft\u2019s Jarvis\"})}),\" (formerly huggingGPT) was the first popular example of using an LLM to determine the system\u2019s need and then select the model to address that need automatically, without human selection or intervention. \",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"This hub-and-spoke \u201Cbrain\u201D model will likely become the norm quickly, removing engineers and business people from the model choice decision.\"})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"New data\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"As stated at the beginning, all LLM data is out of date as soon as they hit the market due to the training time. This will change over time as advances are being made daily as to how to add data regularly without training new models. Also advances such as quantum computing chips will allow for rapid retraining of models, eventually in real-time.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"In the meantime, interim solutions have begun to emerge and the space exists to create new better ones for the more innovative among us. These include ideas like fine-tuning, plugins, and grounding.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Finetuning is the process of delivering highly structured sample data to an LLM that it takes into account when it answers a request. Fine-tuning has a lot of disadvantages. Principally it does not really add your data to the responses. Rather it allows you to include thousands of examples of how you want the completion to be formatted and what kind of language you would like. This does not really augment the data.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://www.healthline.com/health/grounding\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"Grounding\"})}),\" is a process of intercepting communication between a user and an LLM to insert additional, often proprietary, information so it is taken into account in the completion.\\xa0The most popular model right now is to use \",/*#__PURE__*/e(a,{href:\"https://medium.com/@imicknl/how-do-chatgpt-plugins-and-similar-llm-concepts-work-2c83a4aeedd4\",motionChild:!0,nodeId:\"a3ufc1L7f\",openInNewTab:!1,scopeId:\"contentManagement\",smoothScroll:!1,children:/*#__PURE__*/e(o.a,{children:\"plugins for LLMs\"})}),\". These can consult server data stores or the web to analyze the content and incorporate it into the answers from the LLM. It\u2019s important to note that this process does not add this data to the LLM, but rather allows it to process it essentially as part of the input from the prompt itself. This comes with severe limitations on the size of content and accuracy of integration, however, it is better than nothing.\\xa0\"]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"Sidebar: the art of engineering\\xa0\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/t(\"p\",{children:[\"While the tools for creating software are precise, math, data storage, and code, the way we wield them is more like artistry. A tattoo artist is not just a machinist. A developer is not just an engineer. In this era we no longer program machines, but train them. We do not just talk to them in code but in natural language.\",/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"br\",{}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"Prompt engineering requires knowledge of language, data science, nuance and metaphor, grammar, and of linear algebra, and ontology. It is the perfect mashup of art and science.\\xa0\"})})]}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"The names Artium and Artisan are now more relevant than ever.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"h5\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"span\",{style:{\"--framer-text-color\":\"rgb(0, 0, 0)\"},children:\"What comes next?\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"More learning. More experimenting. Hardened apps. Most importantly we need to try new ideas, not be afraid of the pace of change, and balance our desire for perfection with our drive for iteration.\\xa0We need to create systems that truly embrace modularity and allow AI to take over some of the burdens that would normally be on the code, on the user, or on a stakeholder/admin.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Fault-tolerant systems with redundancies become more important. LLMs are trained on human data and include all of the biases and inaccuracies that this entails. They can hallucinate and lie, and they can be creative. This means that we need systems that can work to prevent these outcomes but accept that we cannot create systems that eliminate them. This means becoming innovative about how we design both the back and front end of our systems to account for these human-derived AI failings.\\xa0\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"Go forth and create.\"}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:/*#__PURE__*/e(\"strong\",{children:\"- Cauri Jaye, Fractional CXO at Artium\"})}),/*#__PURE__*/e(\"p\",{children:\"*It is important to note the date of this document, as mentioned above, as the space is moving so very quickly. Some items here may rapidly become out of date, some will need revision and others will be solidified as fact. Please keep this in mind as we explore, expand and capitalize on this emerging space\"})]});\nexport const __FramerMetadata__ = {\"exports\":{\"richText4\":{\"type\":\"variable\",\"annotations\":{\"framerContractVersion\":\"1\"}},\"richText1\":{\"type\":\"variable\",\"annotations\":{\"framerContractVersion\":\"1\"}},\"richText2\":{\"type\":\"variable\",\"annotations\":{\"framerContractVersion\":\"1\"}},\"richText\":{\"type\":\"variable\",\"annotations\":{\"framerContractVersion\":\"1\"}},\"richText3\":{\"type\":\"variable\",\"annotations\":{\"framerContractVersion\":\"1\"}},\"__FramerMetadata__\":{\"type\":\"variable\"}}}"],
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